前言

这周我在我的播客推荐newsletter The Pod Luck Club里推荐了这期Inside China制作的这期关于日本核废水排放的节目。推荐链接：Ep 1149 Chinas fear and loathing for Fukushima: science versus social media | Inside China

节目里科普了我们是否要因为日本核废水而恐慌，中国互联网上的假新闻等等。

The Pod Luck Club的订阅者碧玉用openAI 开源的语音转文字的AI 模型 Whisper，将这期播客转换成了文字，再用ChatGPT做了中文翻译，并且进行了整理。

我在当天的推荐里写

所以在碧玉的建议下，我们一起发布这篇内容。在中文世界里添加一些内容。

再次推荐这期节目。收听链接： 官网 ｜ Spotify

一些摘抄

全文

China’s fear and loathing for Fukushima: science versus social media | Inside China

中国对福岛的恐惧与厌恶：科学与社交媒体之战

Introduction

简介

You're listening to a podcast from the South China Morning Post. Hello and welcome to the Inside China Podcast. My name is Jared Watt. I'm the specialist digital editor for the South China Morning Post here in Hong Kong. And in this special episode, we're going to plunge into the stormy waters surrounding the release of treated water into the ocean off the coast of the Fukushima nuclear power plant in Japan.

大家好，欢迎收听《南华早报》的Inside China Podcast，我是Jared Watt。作为南华早报的专业数字编辑，我在香港工作。在这一特别的节目中，我们将深入探讨在日本福岛核电站沿海向大海释放经过处理的水的争议。

Now just in case you weren't around 12 years ago when this story started, the Fukushima nuclear plant on the east coast of Japan was the scene of this century's worst nuclear plant disaster. It happened when an earthquake triggered a massive tsunami which swept in and destroyed the power supply and cooling systems, causing three nuclear reactors and their fuel to melt and spew out large amounts of radiation. What remains inside those reactors is 880 tonnes of fatally radioactive nuclear fuel cooled down by constant circulation of water. The water used to cool those melting nuclear reactors is collected and treated with some of it recirculated and then the rest stored in tanks.

假设你们不清楚，12年前此事开始的时候，日本东海岸的福岛核电站曾发生了本世纪最严重的核能灾难。当时，一次地震引发了一股巨大的海啸，摧毁了电力供应和冷却系统，导致三个核反应堆和燃料熔毁，并释放出大量辐射。这些反应堆内还残留着880吨致命的放射性核燃料，通过持续循环的水冷却。用于冷却熔毁的核反应堆的水被收集并进行处理，其中一部分循环使用，其余存储在罐中。

Now we found this out in October of 2018 when the plant's operator Tokyo Electric Power Company, otherwise known as TEPCO, apologised to the Japanese government for previously insisting all radioactive materials had been removed from the site.

我们在2018年10月得知这一情况，当时核电站的运营商东京电力公司（TEPCO）向日本政府道歉，之前曾坚称所有放射性物质已从现场清除。

Fast forward and here we are now. It's been 12 years of storing water from the dam to reactor core in huge tanks at the Fukushima power plant. An estimated 1,000 huge steel tanks containing 1.3 million tonnes of water, which is the equivalent of about 500 Olympic-sized swimming pools. In July this year the Japanese government and TEPCO announced the water must be released to make way for the power plant's decommissioning and to prevent any accidental leaks of insufficiently treated water.

现在，12年过去了。福岛核电站已经将从坝至反应堆核心的水，储存在巨大的钢罐中。据估计，有大约1000个巨大的钢罐，储存着130万吨水，相当于约500个奥运使用的游泳池大小。今年7月，日本政府和TEPCO宣布，必须释放这些水以进行核电站的报废，并防止未经充分处理的水意外泄漏。

Now the process is to take 30 years, essentially trickling out this water slowly from a pipe on the seabed of the Pacific Ocean off the coast of Fukushima while testing it every step of the way to ensure it stays within safety limits of radioactivity.

该过程将持续30年，通过从福岛沿海太平洋底部的管道缓慢排放这些水，并在每一个步骤中进行测试，以确保其放射性保持在安全限制范围内。

Controversy Surrounding Release of Fukushima Water

福岛核泄漏水释放引发争议

Now in July the International Atomic Energy Association, the nuclear watchdog for the United Nations, signed off on that plan after a two-year review. The South Korean government made its own study and announced the water release meets international standards and respected the IAEA assessment. The US Food and Drug Administration removed its last import restrictions on Japanese food in 2021. And last month the EU agreed to remove all its restrictions on Japanese food imports that were imposed after the disaster in 2011, but not here in Hong Kong and not in mainland China.

现在是7月，联合国的核事务国际机构——国际原子能机构经过两年的审查，批准了这项计划。韩国政府进行了自己的研究，并宣布排放的水符合国际标准，并尊重国际原子能机构的评估。美国食品药品监督管理局在2021年取消了对日本食品的最后一项进口限制。上个月，欧盟同意解除自2011年灾难发生后对日本食品进口的所有限制，但香港和中国内地仍未解除。

On Tuesday last week Hong Kong's leader John Lee announced to all who would listen that he was immediately banning all imports of Japanese seafood, even though the pumping of the water was to start Thursday. His bans targeted 10 prefectures in Japan, including Nagano, which is a landlocked prefecture some 330km to the southwest of Fukushima. Then on Thursday came this statement from China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The ocean is the common property of all humanity. To forcibly start the ocean discharge is an extremely selfish and irresponsible act in disregard of the global public interest. By dumping the water into the ocean, Japan is spreading the risks to the rest of the world and passing an open wound onto the future generations of humanity. By doing so, Japan has turned itself into a saboteur of the ecological system and polluter of the global marine environment. By the way, what's great about the website for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs for the People's Republic of China is its archive of statements and press releases. This is a statement from two weeks ago on the 12th of August.

在上周二，香港的领导人李家超宣布将立即禁止所有日本海产品的进口，尽管排水工作将于周四开始。他的禁令针对日本的十个行政区，包括福岛西南方约330公里处的内陆行政区长野。随后，就在周四，中国外交部发表了这份声明："海洋是全人类共同的财产。强行开始海洋排放是一种极其自私和不负责任的行为，不顾全球公共利益。通过将水排入海洋，日本正在向全世界传播风险，并将一个“未愈之伤”留给后代。这样做，日本将自己变成了生态系统的破坏者和全球海洋环境的污染者"。顺便说一下，中国外交部的官方网站很棒的是，它有一份声明和新闻稿的存档。这是两周前8月12日的声明。

45 years ago, China and Japan concluded the Treaty of Peace and Friendship between China and Japan. The treaty codifies the commitment of China and Japan to peace, friendship and cooperation, and establishes the everlasting principles and direction for bilateral interaction that proved to be as relevant as ever. In the past 45 years, China-Japan relations have come a long way, bringing tangible benefits to the two peoples and contributing to the prosperity and stability of the region and beyond. If, as Harold Wilson once said, a week is a long time in politics, then two weeks is an eternity in geopolitics.

45年前，中国和日本签署了《中日和平友好条约》。该条约将中日双方对和平、友谊和合作的承诺编入法规，并为双边互动提供了永恒的原则和方向，证明至今仍然具有重要意义。在过去的45年里，中日关系已经走过了很长的路程，为两国人民带来了实实在在的利益，并为该地区和更广阔的地区的繁荣和稳定作出了贡献。如哈罗德·威尔逊曾经说过的，政治上一周就是很长的时间，而在地缘政治中，两周就是一个漫长的永恒。

What we've been seeing on Chinese social media is an extremely volatile mix of Chinese nationalism and anti-Japanese sentiment blending with misinformation, fear and, just like we witnessed here in Hong Kong and elsewhere in the world in the past three years, pseudo-science, rumor and misinformation making for a heady cocktail that leads to a rational panic buying in supermarkets. This time it's not toilet paper, disinfectant or bags of rice, it's salt. That's right, table salt, not even the fancy stuff. We'll hear about that in a few minutes, but let me catch you up on what's happened since Thursday.

我们在中国社交媒体上看到的是一种非常不稳定的混合体，将中国民族主义和反日情绪与错误信息、恐惧以及与过去三年在香港和世界其他地方所见相似的伪科学、谣言和错误信息混合在一起，形成了一种令人兴奋的混合饮料，导致人们在超市进行不理性的囤积购买。这次不是抢购厕纸、消毒剂或大米，而是盐。没错，就是普通食盐，甚至不是高档的那种。过一会儿我们会听到更多相关情况，但让我先给你介绍一下自从星期四以来发生了什么。

Immediately following the initial release of water on Thursday, the IAEA monitors at the site said their tests showed the discharge had even lower radiation levels than the limits Japan has set, 1,500 becarolls per litre, which is about seven times lower than the global drinking water standard. But that's not the message being heard on state-based media and social media in mainland China. Beyond the scientific reality signed off on by the IAEA with the support of the US, where, incidentally, the ocean currents take water from Japan's east coast, and neighbours like South Korea, Vietnam and the Philippines, there's been no public comment from Beijing on the IAEA's sign-off.

在星期四最初排放水的紧接事件中，国际原子能机构（IAEA）监察员在现场表示，他们的测试显示排放水的辐射水平甚至低于日本设定的限制水平，即每升1500贝可/升，这是全球饮用水标准的约七分之一。但这并不是在中国大陆的官方媒体和社交媒体上传达的信息。除了科学现实外，这一现实已获得国际原子能机构的认可，并得到美国以及日本东海岸的海流、以及邻国韩国、越南和菲律宾的支持，北京方面对国际原子能机构的认可并未公开表态。

The economic reality is mainland China is the number one buyer of Japanese seafood, with Hong Kong at number two. But importantly, Japan supplies just 4% of the entire amount of seafood China imports from other countries. Chinese buyers get much more from India, Ecuador and Russia. But what we're seeing and hearing is how the fear, loathing and nuclear panic driven by state-based media is having a huge effect on not just some, but all seafood consumption in mainland China.

经济现实是中国大陆是日本海产品的头号买家，而香港位列第二。但重要的是，日本仅供应中国从其他国家进口的海产品中的4%。中国买家从印度、厄瓜多尔和俄罗斯等国家进口得到的海产品更多。然而我们所见所闻的是国家媒体推动的恐惧、厌恶以及核恐慌对中国大陆所有海产品消费产生了巨大影响。

My colleague Mandy Zuo in Shanghai reported this comment from a source in China's seafood processing and marketing alliance. It will definitely have an impact on the fishery and aquaculture industry. Some domestic companies will be affected as well. According to what I've heard, many people won't eat seafood, at least in the short term. It's a dangerous sign for the industry if such a mentality were to be widespread. And that sentiment was echoed by a research note from an agricultural information consulting firm West of Shanghai on Thursday. Public willingness to consume aquatic products may be affected. Traffic in seafood markets in coastal cities could drop while sales of such products will slump, along with price cuts.

我的同事Mandy Zuo在上海从中国海产品加工和销售联盟的一位消息人士处得知了这一评论。这(核泄水事件)肯定会对渔业和水产养殖产业产生影响。一些国内公司也会受到影响。据我所听，至少在短期内，很多人不会吃海鲜。如果这种心态普遍存在，这对该行业来说是个危险信号。这一观点也得到了上海一家农业信息咨询公司West of Shanghai上周的一份研究报告的附和。公众对于消费水产品的意愿可能会受到影响。沿海城市的海鲜市场交易量可能会下降，销售量也会下滑，价格也会下降。

We're about to plunge into the scientific reality of releasing radioactive water and then see how that collides and reacts with the politics of propaganda and state-based social media campaigns. Let's go with the flow. Victoria Bella is a new member of our science desk here at the South China Morning Post, born and raised in Shanghai, now living here in Hong Kong. Victoria, great to have you in the studio.

我们即将深入探讨放射性废水排放的科学现实，并看看其在宣传政策和基于国家的社交媒体运动中的碰撞和反应。让我们随波逐流。维多利亚·贝拉是我们南华早报科技部门的新成员，出生成长在上海，目前在香港生活。维多利亚，很高兴您来到这个工作室。

Thank you. It's very nice to be here.

谢谢。很高兴来到这里。

Now, you published a story just last week which raised some specific criticisms of the Fukushima Water Release Plan. You managed to pick up on a very specific criticism leveled by both China and Russia at TEPCO's plan to discharge this water. Victoria, it sounds like they were accusing Japan of taking the cheap option.

现在，您上周发表了一篇文章，提出了对福岛泄水计划的一些具体批评。您发现了中俄对东京电力公司排放废水计划提出的非常具体的批评。维多利亚，听起来他们在指责日本选择了更便宜的方法。

Yeah, so they made the charge in a series of letters that was sent over to the International Atomic Energy Agency, or IAEA. And it was essentially a joint list of technical questions to Japan. The first or the latest one they sent was on July 26th of this year, and they kind of questioned the choice of using water discharge over any of the other four options that they explored. Specifically, they wondered why they didn't choose to do vapor release since that was one of the other methods that the IAEA said would be feasible for this. So they mentioned in their letter that, quote, this has less impact on the ocean in neighboring countries than water discharge would, and it would be less likely to cause any leakages or pollution.

是的，他们在一系列信件中向国际原子能机构（IAEA）提出了这一指控。这是一份向日本提出的联合技术问题清单。他们最近发送的是今年7月26日的一封信，他们对于选择废水排放而不是其他四种方法之一进行了质疑。具体而言，他们想知道为什么没有选择蒸汽排放，因为国际原子能机构表示蒸汽排放是可行的其中一种方法。他们在信中提到，引用一句话，排放蒸汽对邻国的海洋影响要小于排放废水，并且更不容易造成任何泄漏或污染。

So yeah, last month's letter, they said, specifically they said, quote, Japan also mentioned that facility configuration for discharge into the sea is simple compared to that for a vapor release, which shows that Japan chooses ocean discharge based on economic considerations. And they brought this point up in a few of the letters that the choice had been made to do water discharge specifically because it was the cheaper, more cost effective option. As for water release, it would be about 23 million US dollars. And in comparison, the vapor release would cost about 10 times more at about 230 million US dollars. So the letter kind of mentioned several times that the choice had been made between vapor release and water discharge purely for economic considerations and not necessarily scientific ones. So actually Japan outlined this difference back in 2016. And after that, the IAEA narrowed down the two options of water vapor, water discharge or vapor release as their best, most feasible options based on Pyrocyn scientific study and other plants using these methods.

所以嗯，上个月的信中，他们提到了具体的内容，引用了以下的说法：“相比于蒸汽排放，日本提到海洋排放的设施配置简单，这表明日本选择海洋排放是基于经济考虑。”他们在几封信中都提到了这一点，选择进行水的排放是因为这是更便宜、更经济的选项。至于水的排放，费用将约为2300万美元。相比之下，蒸汽排放将花费约2.3亿美元，为水排放的十倍。所以信中多次提到，选择蒸汽排放和水的排放纯粹是基于经济考虑，而不是科学考量。事实上，日本在2016年就概述了这种不同情况。此后，国际原子能机构根据Pyrocyn科学研究和其他使用这些方法的设施，将水的排放和蒸汽排放确定为最佳、最可行的选项。

And it's quite interesting, Victoria, that the science based argument has well and truly been overcome by very specific and very nationalistic type responses. So let me just turn to something else in your story. You spoke with the Vice President of the Nuclear Energy Branch of the China Electricity Development Promotion Association. What was interesting about their response?

维多利亚，有趣的是，科学的论点已经被一些特定且带有民族主义色彩的回应所压倒。让我转到你报道中的另一个方面。你采访了中国电力发展促进协会核能分会的副主席，他们的回应有什么有趣之处吗？

Their response was quite interesting because they actually brought up the idea that this had become more of a political than a scientific issue. He kind of mentioned that, you know, from a scientific perspective, there isn't necessarily a reason to question Japan's choice of water discharge. He did bring up that it was still due to cost reasons, but there wasn't necessarily a negative aspect to this because both reasons were scientifically feasible and so they might have chosen the one that was more cost effective. So he kind of specifically mentioned how if they're following global guidelines, if they're following those IAEA guidelines, then the ocean's ability to dilute the water is quite good is what he said. And we shouldn't necessarily worry about discharging into the water because the ocean's natural ability to dilute this waste is quite effective. He did warn that the technology might need a bit more research and it might be a bit early to be releasing this and maybe their own measurements are not necessarily enough to make people feel better about it. And so people might not be trusting Japan's measurements of the treated water and that might be kind of leading to some of the backlash they've been getting. Trust, lack of trust and then fear and distrust are really some of the major things that are happening in this discussion.

他们的回应相当有趣，因为他们实际上提出了这已经成为一个政治问题而不是科学问题的观点。他提到，从科学的角度来看，没有必要对日本选择水的排放产生质疑。他确实提到，这仍然是由于成本原因，但这并没有负面影响，因为这两种选择在科学上是可行的，他们可能选择了更具成本效益的那个。他特别提到了，如果他们遵循全球指导方针，如果他们遵循国际原子能机构的指导方针，那么海洋对于稀释水的能力是相当好的。我们不必担心排放到水体中，因为海洋天然对这种废水的稀释能力是相当有效的。他警告说，这项技术可能需要更多的研究，现在释放这种水可能还为时过早，也许他们自己的测试结果并不足以让人们对此产生更好的感觉。因此，人们可能不太相信日本对处理后水的测量结果，这可能导致了他们所受到的一些抵制。信任、缺乏信任以及恐惧与不信任是这次讨论中主要存在的问题。

You also picked up on something that began trending on social media late last week and has been specifically responded to on many levels of China's state media messaging. And that was Japan's counterclaim that both China and Russia also discharged liquid waste from nuclear sites into the sea and are much higher levels of tritium. Is that true?

社交媒体上，上周末开始达到了一种趋势，并在中国各级媒体上得到特别回应，这是日本对中国和俄罗斯声称两国也将核废水排入海洋，并且三氚水平更高的反驳。这是真的吗？

Yeah, actually. So the Japanese Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry said that I have mentioned many times that less than 22 tera becquerels, which is a measure of radioactivity, which I can explain as well, of tritium would be released from the plant each year. But in comparison, they said that just one of China's nuclear plants, Qingxian, released 143 tera becquerels in liquid form alone in 2020. They also released more in airborne form.

是的，实际上是这样。日本经济产业省表示，我已经多次提到每年将从该核电厂释放不超过22太贝克勒尔的三氚。但相比之下，他们说仅中国的一座核电厂——青县核电厂在2020年仅液态释放了143太贝克勒尔。他们还以气态释放更多。

Terabecorrel, Tritium, and the Number of Nuclear Plants in China

特拉仑贝克勒、三氚以及中国核电厂数量

So yeah, tera becquerels for those who don't know. I'm instantly out of my depth here and I'm pretty sure our friends listening might well be as well.

所以对于不了解的人来说，特拉仑贝克勒可能有些晦涩难懂。我也相信我们这里的听众也可能面临同样的问题。

I'm so glad I've got a science journalist in here, please, Victoria. What is a tera becquerel?

我很高兴能有一位科学记者在场，维多利亚，请问一下，特拉仑贝克勒是什么意思呢？

Sure, yeah. So a tera becquerel is a standard measure of radiation. So one tera becquerel is equal to a trillion becquerels. And for some visualization, a standard banana that you may eat contains about 15 becquerels of radiation. And in terms of what they're measuring here, the tritium. Tritium is a naturally occurring element. It's in the atmosphere and it's been left over from atmospheric weapons testing before in the 1950s and 60s. So tritium is in water. It's kind of in everything. It's in the food that we eat. So if you kind of look at it, it's something that naturally occurs but is also released very often by other nuclear plants around the world. So yeah, and in terms of this point by Japan, there's many other nuclear power plants around the world that are releasing it. There's the Kory nuclear power station in South Korea. They release about 91 tera becquerels each year. In Canada, there's the Darlington nuclear reactor, which discharged 220 tera becquerels of tritium in 2018. And there's also the Lahag reprocessing plant, which discharged more than 11,000 tera becquerels also in 2018. And it's part of a discussion that's kind of opened up where people are asking about the number of nuclear plants that China has along its eastern coast on the South China Sea.

是的，特拉贝克勒是辐射的一个标准单位。一特拉贝克勒等于一万亿贝克勒。如果需要形象化一下，你可能吃的一根普通香蕉含有大约15贝克勒的辐射。而就我们现在所说的这个问题，我们要测量的是氚。氚是一种自然存在的元素，存在于大气中，并残留了上世纪50年代和60年代的大气核试验。氚存在于水中，几乎无处不在，也存在于我们所食用的食物中。所以从某种程度上来看，这是一种自然存在的东西，但也经常被世界上其他核电站释放出来。日本的决定是在这里所引起的许多其他核电站也在释放氚。比如韩国的高丽原子电力站，他们每年释放约91万亿贝克勒的氚。在加拿大，达林顿核反应堆在2018年排放了220万亿贝克勒的氚。此外，在2018年，法国的勒阿格再处理工厂排放了超过11000万亿贝克勒的氚。而这也引起了人们的讨论，关于中国东部海岸沿南海拥有的核电站数量。

Can you tell us more? So in China, there's 14 plants along the coast starting at the top northeastern end of China, past Beijing. That's the Hongyan Ho plant.

你能多讲一些吗？在中国，沿海地区有14个核电站，从中国东北的顶端到北京。如红沿河核电站。

Nuclear Power Plants in China and the Fukushima Concerns

中国的核电站和对福岛的担忧

And down the coast to Daia Bay near Hong Kong, there's several other plants towards Hainan Island in the southwest. And last year, China announced that there'd be three more power plants in coastal provinces that would be releasing two new reactors. So there's the Haiyang plant in Shandong province, Sanmen and Zhejiang province, and the Lufan plant in Guangdong province. And that's a whole lot of nuclear power stations and reactors.

沿着海岸线到达香港附近的大亚湾，还有几个核电站向西南的海南岛。去年，中国宣布在沿海省份再建三个核电站，新增两个反应堆。山东省的海阳核电站，浙江省的三门核电站以及广东省的陆丰核电站。这是非常多的核电站和反应堆。

But it's quite interesting that since this information has come out, you know, comparing the levels of tritium being released, we've seen this sort of counterclaim campaign from state media messaging all the way at the top of Beijing through the social media warriors. And now by Hong Kong's leader, John Lee, that it's not about the tritium from Fukushima.

但有趣的是，自从这些信息公布以来，我们看到一种来自国家媒体及社交媒体战士的对立消息和反驳。甚至包括香港领导人李家超也表态说这不是关于来自福岛的氚的问题。

That's the problem. It's the other radioactive materials, the radionucliides that are part of this water mixed inside the damaged reactor in Fukushima. Has this been addressed by TEPCO, the Japanese authority in charge of this?

这就是问题所在，其他放射材料，也就是放射性核素混杂在福岛受损反应堆内的水中。这个问题是否得到了负责这一事项的日本东京电力公司（TEPCO）的解决？

Yeah, so it's been addressed kind of in a more general sense, almost. So they've mentioned their filtering process, which is called ALPS. But essentially, it's a process that's supposed to remove most of the radionuclides. So there's about 64 and it's supposed to release about 62. And it's supposed to bring the levels of radioactivity below Japan's regulatory limits for 2022 for discharge into the environment. And these limits are based on recommendations from the International Commission on Radiological Protection. So, you know, people have been talking about tritium because the process does not remove carbon 14 or tritium. So the treated water does need to be diluted further to less than one part per 100 parts of seawater in order to be released. So the concern has been that the ALPS process has not been entirely effective. A lot of criticisms of TEPCO have been that initial filtration through the system has not been able to remove some of the more concerning radionuclides, and that they've had to do a series of testing that has seen that the levels have been higher than expected. There was one instance pretty recently where one of the hoses that was supposed to be transporting the water leaked. And in the surrounding areas, there was a dike surrounding the treatment kind of towers where they were being held, where they found that there was levels exceeding those that they were supposed to be at in order to be released. So there's been a lot of concerns about how accurate their testing has been, how accurate the filtration process is. And so, you know, some of the other countries have also said, well, it's not just tritium. That's the concern because this water is not just, you know, typical water from a nuclear plant that is released. There's also a lot of other things, these other radioactive elements in there.

是的，从某种程度上来说，这个问题得到了解决。TEPCO曾提到过他们的过滤处理采用的是ALPS工艺。但本质上来说，这个过程只能去除大部分的放射性核素。大约有64种放射性核素，经过处理后只有62种会被释放。这个过程的目标是将放射性水平降至日本2022年放入环境中的规定限制以下。这些限制是基于国际放射防护委员会的建议制定的。所以，人们一直在谈论氚，因为这个处理过程无法去除碳-14和氚。因此，处理后的水需要进一步稀释至100份海水中不到一份的程度才能释放。因此，人们担心ALPS工艺并不完全有效。TEPCO受到了很多批评，因为最初的过滤系统无法去除一些更令人担忧的放射性核素，因此他们进行了一系列的测试，发现放射性水平高于预期。最近有一个情况，其中一个输送水的软管发生了泄漏。在周围区域，发现围绕那些处理塔的堤坝水平已超出了释放要求。所以对于他们的测试准确性以及过滤处理的准确性存在很多担忧。所以，其他一些国家也表示不只是氚是问题所在，因为这些水并不仅仅是一般核电站排放的水，其中还含有其他的放射性元素。

And I can almost hear the hesitation in your voice as a science journalist saying, and it's the public discussing things of a radioactive nature. There's 70 years of atomic anxieties sort of fueling where we are in this discussion. So I get the feeling you're going to be really busy over the next days and weeks covering this issue.

在你作为一名科学记者时，我几乎可以听到你的声音中的犹豫，因为公众正在讨论与放射性有关的事情。70年来的原子焦虑推动了我们对这个问题的讨论。所以我感觉你接下来的几天和几周会非常忙，关注这个问题。

Definitely. I'm working on another story about the water release.

当然。我正在写另一个关于排放水的故事。

So it's definitely a topic that is really interesting to people right now and one that I'm going to be looking at more closely. Fantastic. Victoria Bella, welcome to the microphone. Welcome to Inside China. We will see your stories on scmp.com. Thank you.

所以这绝对是一个现在引起人们极大兴趣的话题，我将会更加关注。维多利亚·贝拉，欢迎上麦克风。欢迎来到Inside China。我们将在scmp.com上看到你的报道。谢谢。

Thank you so much.

非常感谢。

Mimi Lau was once upon a time the presenter of this podcast. Now she's assistant lecturer in the journalism department at the University of Hong Kong. She's also the managing editor of the Annie Lab Project, the fact-checking newsroom at the University of Hong Kong. She's been very busy. Mimi Lau, welcome back to the Inside China podcast.

Mimi Lau曾经是这个播客的主持人。现在她是香港大学新闻系的助理讲师。她还是香港大学Annie实验室项目的主编，负责事实核查的新闻室。她一直很忙。Mimi Lau，欢迎回到Inside China播客。

Thank you, Jarrah. It's good to be back.

谢谢，Jarrah。很高兴回来。

Let's get through this social media whirlwind in Mainland China over the last few days. It's been running red hot and lead up to the official release of wastewater from the Fukushima plant. Can you give us a sense of what's been posted and how hot is it running now?

让我们来看看中国大陆社交媒体在过去几天里的社交媒体风暴。在福岛核电厂废水正式排放之前，它一直非常热门。你能给我们提供一些关于已发布的内容以及它现在有多热门的感觉吗？

Yeah, we actually seen a barrage of misinformation spreading, taking over Chinese social media. We're seeing headless dead fish claimed to be found inside Japanese lakes. We've seen photos apparently showing dirty seawater that was claimed to be discharged from the Fukushima plant.

是的，我们实际上看到了大量的错误信息在中国社交媒体上散布。有人声称在日本的湖泊中发现了没有头的死鱼。还有照片显示据称是从福岛核电厂排放的脏海水。

And we're also seeing people using various versions of radiation meters to measure their background radiation levels. And in a sense to portray that kind of narrative that the discharged water is very harmful to the world's population. And then at the same time, we're also seeing a display of nationalistic sentiment where we see young people crying hysterically on TikTok, cursing the Japanese government for allowing the discharge with absolute hatred. And one of the boys actually cut out Japan from the world map displayed in his room. We're also seeing Chinese citizens making prank phone calls to random Japanese landlines with abusive remarks made in Chinese. And of course there's fishermen crying for the life of those being destroyed by this plan. And also Chinese consumers are calling for a boycott of Japanese cosmetic products.

我们还看到人们使用各种版本的辐射计来测量背景辐射水平。从某种意义上来说，他们描绘了这种排放水对世界人口非常有害的叙事。与此同时，我们也看到了一种民族主义情绪的展示，年轻人在抖音上痛哭流涕，对日本政府允许这种排放表达了绝对的憎恨。其中一个男孩甚至在他房间里展示的世界地图上把日本剪掉了。我们还看到中国公民通过恶意谩骂用中文给随机的日本座机打电话。当然，渔民为那些将被这个计划摧毁的生命哭泣。同时，中国消费者呼吁抵制日本的化妆品产品。

That's really interesting hearing how it's now escalated to consumer bans on Japanese cosmetic products. Mimi, because we've seen for years now that consumer base, that power that China has been flexed in the likes of South Korea on various other countries that have some way run afoul of sentiment for the Chinese netizens. But what we're seeing here is a real fusion of fear, misinformation, environmental kind of concerns, and that sleeping beast known as Chinese online sentiment. I'm going to take a wild guess here Mimi and assume it didn't take too long for Chinese netizens to start discussion of the Second World War and grievances against Japan left over from that period.

非常有趣的是，听到它如何已经升级到消费者对日本化妆品的抵制。Mimi，因为多年来我们已经看到，中国的消费者基础和力量已经在韩国等其他国家中展现出来，这些国家在某种程度上与中国网民的情绪发生了冲突。但我们在这里看到的是一种真正的恐惧、错误信息、环境问题和被称为中国网络情绪的沉睡巨兽的融合。我猜，Mimi，之后没过多久，中国网民就开始讨论第二次世界大战和二战起对日本的仇恨情绪。

Yes, correct. Actually some of the posts attacked Japan at an environmental level. We saw a real surge in cyber nationalism with a lot of anti-Japanese sentiment in the Second World War and labeling the entire Japanese people as evil. And again, Chinese state media seem to play a prominent part in this with CCTV and Xinhua releasing social images and slogans labeling Japanese leadership as evil and inhumane. And the entire nation of Japan as evil and a destroyer. But don't forget it was just over a year ago in July 2022 that we saw a real upsurge in this online nationalist army in the wake of the assassination of Shinzo Abe. So in the past 10 years we have seen a huge increase in social media nationalism in China in general.

是的，正确。实际上，一些帖子在环境层面上攻击了日本。我们在网上看到了大量反日情绪，融入到了二战中反日情感，并将整个日本人民都标签化为邪恶。此外，中国官方媒体似乎在其中起到了重要作用，中央电视台和新华社发布了带有社交意义的图片和标语，将日本领导层称为邪恶和不人道，将整个日本国家称为邪恶和破坏者。但不要忘记，在2022年7月的仅仅一年多之前，我们看到了这个在线民族主义军团，在安倍晋三暗杀事件后的真实崛起。因此，在过去的10年里，我们看到了中国社交媒体民族主义的大幅增加。

Misleading Images and the Narrative Surrounding Fukushima in China

中国发生的福岛核电站的误导性图像和叙事

And yes indeed Mimi, our colleagues here at the South China Morning Post have detailed that vehement online sentiment in the wake of Xinhua Bay's assassination. But having spent the better part of the last three years working with you on this podcast reporting on misinformation and disinformation during the pandemic I see there's been some significant items of misinformation that are worthy of some fact checking we'll get to the panic buying of salt in just a second but I'm really interested about this viral image that went out across Weibo which is actually two photos. One of an egg boiling in water and the other what looks like a lump of scrambled egg in boiling water. What was happening there? What was being said?

是的，Mimi，我们在《南华早报》的同事详细报道了在新华湾暗杀事件发生后，人们在网络上表达的愤怒情绪。但是，在过去三年中，我与你一起报道了疫情期间的误导和虚假信息，我发现有一些重要的错误信息，值得进行事实核查。我们稍后再谈盐的抢购问题，但我对微博上流传的一个病毒图片很感兴趣，实际上是两张照片。一张是水中煮蛋的照片，另一张是煮水中看起来像是炒鸡蛋的一团东西。那里面发生了什么？有什么说法？

We saw two images stacked vertically together. Apparently in the first image we saw two hard boiled eggs in boiling water in a pot and then second one we saw some cracked egg in boiling water but what's unusual about these two images is that the first one shows hard boiled eggs it says it's being boiled in treated nuclear wastewater released by normal nuclear plant but the second one that shows a cracked egg in boiling water the water actually came from the Fukushima plant So I ran some initial reverse image search and found at least one of the images actually came all the way back as early as 2013 from a UK news website talking about how long it takes to boil eggs in general. So these images have been reused and it's classic misinformation tactics where all images being reused and labeled with new misleading content and that just went viral on the social media.

我们看到两张图像在垂直方向上叠放在一起。显然第一张图中我们看到一个锅里放着两个煮熟的鸡蛋，在开水中煮沸，而第二张图中我们看到一些裂开的蛋在沸水中，但是这两张图像不寻常的地方是第一张图显示的是已经煮熟的鸡蛋，上面写着它是在常规核电厂释放的处理过的核废水中煮沸的，而第二张图中显示的裂开的鸡蛋，水实际上来自福岛核电厂。所以我进行了一些初始的反向图像搜索，发现至少其中一张图片实际上早在2013年就出现在一个英国新闻网站上，讨论了通常需要多长时间煮鸡蛋。所以这些图片已经被重复使用，并标上了新的误导性内容，然后在社交媒体上迅速传播开来。

And as you say, that's classic misinformation. The kinds of stuff we've seen really come up in the last couple of years repurposing an image with some pseudoscience. I mean, let's think about the claim here. Someone has gone to the ocean seabed, retrieved some of that treated seawater from the pipeline leading out from Fukushima, and then compared it with another sample of water. And I think it's quite interesting. This image came out after an infographic from the Japan Times went around Twitter late last week showing a map with four different nuclear plants in mainland China and how much tritium they've released into the South China Sea compared with the plan for Fukushima. And I feel like there's this sudden pivot to say, well, there's actually this idea of clean treated water from a nuclear plant and unclean from Fukushima, which again ties into a bigger narrative of response from Beijing.

正如你所说，这是经典的误导行为。在过去几年中，我们看到了许多类似的事情，将一张图片与伪科学相结合。我想让我们来仔细思考一下这个主张。有人去了海洋底部，从从福岛导水管道里取出一些经过处理的海水，然后将其与另一份水样进行比较。我认为很有趣的是，在上周末，日本时报的一个信息图在Twitter上流传开来，显示了中国大陆四个不同核电厂在南中国海释放的氚量与福岛计划相比的地图，之后出现了这张图片。我觉得突然有这个转变，意味着有一个新的想法，即来自核电厂的处理过的清洁水与福岛的不洁水，这再次纳入了北京方面的更大叙事中。

Chinese Consumers and Salt Hoarding

中国消费者和储盐现象

Actually, Jared, apart from the various emotional and pseudo scientific social media posts that we have seen so far, actually not all content was negative. We have seen a number of social media posts either on Zhihu, on Weibo, trying to do a scientific breakdown of radioactive elements such as tritium being released by Chinese nuclear plants and compared that of the Japanese ones. However, these posts are not trending in Chinese social media. Well, one thing that was trending in social media in mainland China and witnessed here in grocery stores in Hong Kong is this thing we witnessed over the last couple of years. And that is people scrambling to panic by certain items as a result of social media misinformation. We're seeing people pushing trolleys filled with bags of salt out of grocery stores in mainland China. What's happening here?

事实上，Jared，除了我们迄今为止所见到的各种情绪化和伪科学的社交媒体帖子以外，实际上并不是所有的内容都是负面的。我们也看到了一些社交媒体帖子，无论是在知乎还是在微博上，试图对中国的核电站释放的氚等放射性元素进行科学分析，并与日本的相比较。然而，这些帖子在中国社交媒体上并没有成为热门话题。在中国大陆社交媒体上热议的一件事是在香港的杂货店里目睹的，这是我们过去几年所见过的情况。人们抢购某些物品，是社交媒体误导的结果。我们看到人们推着装满食盐的手推车从中国大陆的杂货店中涌出。发生了什么？

So yes, Jared, apart from salt flying off the shelves in supermarkets and stores, even online stores are reporting a shortage of salt in stock. And we identified this with people's fear of salt shortages based on the misconception that salt came from the ocean. And in mainland China, most of the salt is actually mined inland.

是的，Jared，除了盐在超市和商店的货架上销售一空外，连网上商店也报告称盐库存不足。我们发现，人们对食盐短缺的担忧源于食盐来自海洋的错误观念。而在中国大陆，大部分的食盐实际上是从内陆盐矿开采得来的。

Another is the mistaken belief that salt can be used as a substitute for potassium iodine to cure radiation poisoning. But actually, none of this is correct. And Annie Lab is planning to run an explainer on this topic. And Mimi, I understand that Annie Lab has got some research going back a few years about this role of salt when it comes to pseudo science and panics in mainland China. Can you tell us some more?

另一个错误观念是食盐可以用作钾碘酸盐的替代品来治疗辐射中毒。但实际上，这都是不正确的。Annie Lab 计划制作一段科普视频来解释这个问题。而Mimi，我了解到Annie Lab 几年前，就对中国大陆由伪科学和恐慌那个引发的的储盐现象进行了一些研究。你能告诉我们更多吗？

Actually, this is on the first time we've seen Chinese consumers holding salt. We have seen this phenomenon reoccurring in modern Chinese history. And we can count back to during the SARS outbreak, during the initial Fukushima disaster in 2011, and there was actually a man being arrested for spreading this kind of rumors online that caused a national salt buying spree. And he was detained by the authorities. So what's interesting is that we also find a report released by the Chinese Society for Environmental Sciences, a semi-official organization that analyzed salt-holding phenomenon by Chinese consumers. They actually polled more than 3,000 people in Beijing, Hubei, and Gansu province and found in every 100 citizens aged between 15 to 69, they were feared that nine of them were actually equipped with basic concepts such as environmental science, public health, and common sense. So that actually being attributed to the main reason for the widespread misinformation on the internet.

实际上，这不是中国消费者第一次囤积食盐了。我们发现这种现象在中国现代历史中反复出现。我们可以追溯到SARS疫情爆发时期，2011年福岛核灾初期时，实际上有一名男性因在网上散布引发全民抢购食盐的谣言而被当局逮捕和拘留。有趣的是，我们还发现中国环境科学学会发布了一份报告，这是一个半官方组织，对中国消费者的储盐现象进行了分析。他们实际上调查了北京、湖北和甘肃省的三千多人，发现每一百名年龄在15岁至69岁之间的公民中，有九人对环境科学、公共卫生和常识等基本概念缺乏了解。这实际上是广泛的网络错误信息传播的主要原因。

And the thing is, what's interesting to us is that we have seen Chinese government releasing layers and layers of strict rules and regulations and laws on national level and local level to crack down on rumor spreaders on misinformation. And yet it's so interesting to see an old claim and old misinformation continue to resurrect on a Chinese internet.

事实上，有趣的是，我们注意到中国政府在国家和地方层面上发布了一系列严格的规章制度和法律，以打击谣言和不实信息的传播。然而，有趣的是，我们看到一个旧的说法和旧的错误信息继续在中国互联网上出现。

Mimi, I think it's really interesting you peek up on Beijing's very strict rules, laws concerning misinformation and disinformation on social media. They're quite specific. And it's interesting, as we know at this moment, there's not really been any crackdown around this. And as we're telling you just off the microphone, the only messaging we're seeing from Beijing from state authorities is just telling people to not panic buy salt. Is that right?

Mimi，我认为你注意到了北京对社交媒体上的错误信息和虚假信息采取的非常严格的规定和法律。它们非常具体。有趣的是，我们在这个时刻并没有看到对此进行任何打击。正如我们刚才在麦克风外告诉你的那样，我们只看到北京政府部门的信息是告诉人们不要恐慌买盐。对吗？

Yeah, they are the sole industry association and groups nationwide. They are appealing to the public not to engage in this panic buying of salt and seeing that there's actually plenty of resources and that 90% of salt production is not from sea salt and that the Chinese salt is not being affected by the so-called nuclear pollution. But China's seafood industry is indeed going to have a significant amount of time to either rebuild reputation release, rebuild trust with their consumers. China is the number one purchaser of seafood from Japan. We'll see how this plays out over the next weeks and months. Indeed, 30 years is how long this will go for according to the authorities behind the Fukushima water release.

是的，他们是全国范围内唯一的行业协会和团体。他们呼吁公众不要恐慌性地购买盐，并指出实际上有足够的资源，中国的盐90％都不是海盐，中国的盐不会受到所谓的核污染影响。但中国的海鲜行业确实需要相当长的时间来恢复声誉和重建与消费者的信任。中国是日本海鲜的头号采购国。我们将看到这个情况在未来几个星期和几个月内如何发展。确实，根据负责福岛核电污水释放的官方部门，福岛核电污水释放将持续30年。

Mimi Lau, my former colleague from the SEMP, but now with Annie Lab. Thank you very much for your time. We can find you online at annielab.org, A-N-N-I-E-L-A-B. I know that you're on all the socials on the same name, Instagram, the platform formerly known as Twitter, as well as Facebook. Mimi Lau, thank you so much for your time.

Mimi Lau，我的前同事，现在在 Annie Lab 工作。非常感谢你抽出时间。您可以在 annielab.org 上找到她的在线信息，A-N-N-I-E-L-A-B。我知道你在 Instagram、曾经被称为 Twitter 的平台以及 Facebook 上都有同样的名字。非常感谢 Mimi Lau 抽出时间接受采访。

Thank you so much, Sharis. My pleasure.

非常感谢你，Sharis。我很荣幸。

That's all for this episode of Inside China and a reminder, as always, to keep up to date with the latest developments on our website at scmp.com. You can find out a lot more about China's enormous investment in nuclear power as it tries to hit the zero carbon target for its economy over the next decade. And you can see and read more about the economic impact on what used to be a thriving Japanese restaurant sector here in Hong Kong. Thanks for listening. My name is Jared Butt. Bye for now.

感谢收听本期 Inside China。请务必在我们的网站 scmp.com 上随时了解最新动态。您可以了解更多关于中国在未来十年中将经济实现零碳目标而进行的巨额核电投资，并了解这对香港曾经繁荣的日本餐饮业的经济影响。谢谢收听。我是 Jared Butt。再见。