中英文文字稿 ｜ 001 - 我妈妈的四次怀孕和三次生育 ｜ 噢！妈妈

这集节目最近在小宇宙上被下架了，更加让我相信我做这档节目的初衷。每个普通人的故事，都值得被听见，被记住。

上世纪九十年代，我妈妈在计划生育政策和农村重男轻女的双重背景下，怀孕了四次，生育了三个儿女。

在第一期节目里，我采访了我妈妈，第一次请她讲述了她的生育史，包括我第一次知道她在怀孕八个月时被迫引产。

对于计划生育，重男轻女这两个难以分开的话题，每个人都可能有很强烈的倾向和判断。在这个节目里，我并不是想要批判任何人的选择，我希望邀请到更多女性（母亲或女儿）来讲述她们最真实的关于生育的经历。这些珍贵的回忆值得被更多人听见和记得。

如果您喜欢这集节目，请推荐给您的朋友、亲人。如果有您任何的建议、感想，也欢迎通过邮箱联络我。我会保护您的隐私。

*因为话题的敏感性，为了保护我妈妈的身份，我给我们的声音都做了一定处理。

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[以下是音频文字稿]

本期节目欢迎大家和父母长辈一起收听。

We recommend you listen to this program with your parents and elders.

大家好，我是S。欢迎收听 噢！妈妈 的第一期节目。

我出生在浙江温州一个普通的农村家庭，我妈在1990年至1996年期间生了3个小孩。我是中间的女儿，有一个姐姐和弟弟。我在出生后不久就被寄养在别人家里。过去的几年，我一直在试图自我消化这段经历，为了拼凑出更完整的前因后果，了解那段历史，我鼓起勇气采访了我妈。请她讲述了她在计划生育高压政策和农村重男轻女的落后文化之间挣扎的生育故事。

Hi everyone, my name is S. Welcome to the first episode of Oh!Mama.

I was born in an ordinary rural family in Wenzhou, Zhejiang. My mother gave birth to 3 children between 1990 and 1996. I am the middle daughter, I have a sister and a younger brother. I was fostered in someone else’s house soon after I was born. In the past few years, I have been trying to digest this experience myself. In order to piece together a more complete cause and effect and understand that period of history, I plucked up the courage to interview my mother. Asked her to tell her story of struggling between the repressive policy of family planning and the backward culture of patriarchy in rural areas.

尽管2015年已经出台了二胎政策，国家现在也正在鼓励生育，但计划生育对我们这几代人的影响不会轻易被抹去。我妈妈的经历只是万千妇女的经历中的其中一个。我希望能够通过这期节目抛砖引玉，采访到更多的母亲们，记录下属于他们的生育故事。

Although the two-child policy was introduced in 2015 and the country is now encouraging births, the impact of family planning on our generations will not be easily erased. My mother’s experience is just one of the experiences of thousands of women. I hope that through this program, I will be able to use this program to give insights, interview more mothers, and record their birth stories.

因为我妈妈并没有被采访的经验，为了让我妈能尽量放松，我们的对话是用方言和普通话穿插进行的。在方言部分我会进行翻译。

Because my mother has no experience of being interviewed, in order to let my mother relax as much as possible, our conversations were interspersed in dialect and Mandarin. I will translate the dialect part.

在录制场地方面，这次的录制是在床上进行的，所以会出现一些杂音。

同时因为这个话题的敏感性，在涉及人名和地名的地方，我都做了相应的处理，请大家多多包涵。

In terms of the recording venue, this time the recording was performed on the bed, so there will be some noise.

At the same time, because of the sensitivity of this topic, I have dealt with the names of people and places accordingly. Please bear with me.

[以下是采访部分]
[Start of the interview]

S：妈妈，我做这个项目，我刚刚跟你解释的，我没有说要怪你怪爸爸或者任何人的意思。我就是单纯地想要了解一下，你在1990年到1995年期间生孩子的一些过程。因为我以前从来没有问过你，我自己也很好奇。然后我觉得全中国可能也没有多少，你这个年纪的人在说自己经历的那些事情。所以我觉得是一个很有意义的事情。

S: Mom, like I just explained to you. Doing this project, I didn’t mean to blame you or Dad or anyone. I just want to understand the process of giving birth between 1990 and 1995. Because I have never asked you before, and I am very curious myself. Then I think there may not be many people your age are talking about the things they have experienced. So I think it is a very meaningful project.

M：这个是这样的啊，我们1990年的时候。我虚岁22岁。那个时候呢，我们年纪轻嘛，就是不懂事，反正也是跟社会潮流走嘛。别人那个时候二十来岁就可以嫁人结婚了呢，我们也就结婚了嘛，当时生了一个女儿，那时候我们家里也没有钱，很穷的，没有什么财产之类的。确实是很苦。我们都是靠自己努力打拼。赚钱自己糊口养家。

M: Here’s how things were. I was almost 22 years old in 1990. At that time, we were young and we were ignorant. We were just following the trend of society. When others were in their twenties, they could marry and get married, so we got married. We gave birth to a daughter. At that time, our family had no money and was very poor. There was no real property. Life wea very hard. We all work hard on our own. Make money and to support ourselves.

怀孕的时候呢，反正我可能是年纪青，体力好。都站了一天，晚上10点钟加班加点，我都要把事情做好，那个时候做事情也很认真。生完孩子后才五十多天马上就起来继续工作，小孩子自己带。还有我妹妹都过来一起，两个妹妹过来一起帮忙，一边做生意，一边带带小孩。自己一边做事，一边带小孩，自力更生艰苦奋斗。

When I was pregnant, I was young and strong. Even if I had been standing all day, working overtime at 10 o’clock in the evening, I still had to do things well. Only more than fifty days after giving birth, I got up and continued to work immediately, and took care of the kid at the same time. And my two younger sisters came to help, doing business and bringing the children together.While doing things by myself, while taking care of children, just be self-reliant and work hard.

S：那你生第一个小孩的时候，那个时候可以做性别检查吗？

S: When you gave birth to your first child, could you have a gender check at that time?

M：有。这个是也是靠人际关系的，但是我是没有去。

M：You could. This is also dependent on interpersonal relationships, but I did not go.

S：所以你第一个生出来就不知道是男的女的。

S：So you didn’t know the gender of your first born before giving birth.

M：对。

M：I didn’t know.

S：那生出来第一个是女儿之后有人有说什么吗？

S: Did anyone say anything after the first daughter was born?

M：我们这个年纪是不怎么计较。婆婆那一辈，他们是肯定是很重男轻女的。她说生了女儿，一定要生个儿子。她说再多的钱放在家里别人也看不到。她说没有儿子啊，是因为你这辈子做人做的不好。怎么会没有儿子？反正他们老人家是这样子想的。

后来继续生了第二个女儿。那我们那里的政策是这样的，第一胎是女儿后，要隔5年之后，白生第二胎。这样真的是不用罚款。如果第一个是儿子，绝对是不能再生的了。

M：We didn’t care that much. But the mother-in-law generation, they were . She said that if you gave birth to a daughter, then you must also have a son. She said that no matter how much money is kept at home, no one can see it. She said that if one doesn’t have a son, it must because you didn’t do well in your life. How could there be no son? Anyway, older people think this way.

Later I continued to give birth to a second daughter. Then the one-child policy worked like this, if the first child was a daughter, after 5 years, the second child could be born without paying a fine. But if the first one was a son, then one can never give birth anymore.

S：第二个生出来是女儿，然后是在哪里生的呢？

S: The second daughter was born, and where did you give birth to her?

M：91年我们买了一个房子。前任房主赌博输钱后，把房子卖掉了。有个中介人介绍说这个房子好，过去装修确实很好的。195000元钱买过来了。买过来的时候呢，没有多长时间呢，那些找前房主收赌金的人，都向这个房子的主人要钱。但主人已经卖房逃跑了，别人过来找不到人，会把门从外面锁上。

买这个房子很倒霉的，在这个房子里怀孕、坐月子都在这个房子里。92年的7月的一天，一大早肚子痛起来。在旁边只有100米左右的私人的诊所里生下来了孩子。

M: Here is the story. We bought a house in 1991. The former homeowner sold his house after losing money in gambling. An intermediary said that the house was good, and the decoration was really good in the past. I bought it for 195,000 yuan. When I bought it, it didn’t take long before those debt collectors came to the house to ask for money. But the owner has already sold the house and ran away. The debt collectors would lock the door from outside with their own locks.

We were unlucky to have bought this house. We lived in this house during the second pregnancy and the Chinese practice of ‘sitting the month’ all in this house. My stomach hurt early in the morning in July 1992, the baby was born in a private clinic only about 100 meters away.

S：那第二胎的时候有做过B超吗？你生出来之前知道是个女儿吗？

S: Did you have an ultrasound during your second pregnancy? Did you know it would be a daughter before you gave birth?

M：肯定知道，反正我们这里的人都是这样的。生了第二个他说没关系，有些人是送给别人养，一个月要给别人钱呀。有一些人就直接抱给别人了，就送人了，就这样。

后来我生了27天后，我大姐在教堂里找了那户人家。

M: I must have known. People here had ways to deal with the second daughter. People thought it was okay to have a second daughter. Some people would pay others to raise their daughter. Some people just gave away the daughter and that’s it.

Then 27 days after I gave birth to the second daughter, my eldest sister found the family in the church (and sent the daughter to that family).

S：那你当时生下来的时候是看到是个女儿，心里面是还记得是怎么想的吗？

S: Do you still remember what you thought when you gave birth to the second daughter?

M：这些我到现在为止，我都没有重男轻女，一点感觉也没有。但是婆婆她肯定是感觉怎么又是女孩。她们老人肯定是心里不高兴，我们是真无所谓的。

如果我把这个小孩给自己带，那要马上去结扎。那就是不用罚款，反正你一辈子就是两个女儿，反正这样的事，我们这里的人现在也很多。现在跟你年纪差不多大的，人家就两个女儿，有很多。除非有一些人要么抱给别人家说自己没有生下来。有些人来说直接送人了。

M: Up to now, I do not prefer boys over girls, not a slight bit. But my mother-in-law must feel like why was a girl again. The elderly must be upset. We really don’t care.

If I brought up this child myself, I would get sterilized immediately. I would only have two daughters in my life. There are many families with two daughters (because of the policy). There are some people who would give away the second daughter and pretend they didn’t have another daughter.

有些在单位里上班的人，她们每隔几个月都要去做检查，看有没有怀孕。不去的话，别人就会知道你是怀孕了。有一些人会找别人代替她去。这个造假肯定要有关系的。

但是有些人怀孕被抓住了，没办法，电视机拿走了，东西都搬走。那个时候政府那些。计划生育生育状态很严格的，把有些人的婆婆，公公，老公，外婆，外公都抓起坐牢的。

意思说一定要把孕妇人找过来才放他们走。怀一个大肚子，还有东逃西躲都要躲起来。

被他抓住，马上就把你打掉。

有些人他们有钱的，就罚款十万20万30万也有。或者罚你税务，反正就把生意给搞垮。

然后我就是这样，把第二个生下来交给别人养，就假装自己没有生第二个。我也没有去医院。

Some people who work for government owned employers had to be checked every few months to see if they are pregnant. If you don’t go, others will know that you were pregnant. Some people would find someone to replace her. Of course you must have connections to do hits.

But some people were caught when they were pregnant, the TV was taken away, and everything was taken by the government. The family planning workers were very strict, and some people’s mother-in-law, father-in-law, husband, grandma, and grandfather were all taken to prison.It meant that pregnant women must be found before they are let go.

If you were pregnant with a big belly, you have to hide. If they were caught, they would be forced to get an abortion immediately.

Some people who have money and own businesses would be fined 100,000, 200,000 or 300,000 yuan. Or they would punish you with taxes, and ruin your businesses.

So what I did was to pay another family to raise the kid and pretend that I did not have the second one. I did not go to the hospital either.

S：那这27天里面的事情你还记得吗？你们是有商量吗，决定这个要不要这个小孩或者是送人呢？

S: Do you remember the events during these 27 days? Did you discuss the options, to give her away or pay someone to foster her?

M：我们坐月子也不敢在家里坐的。我在别人那里坐的。我有个朋友，她是7月7日生了儿子。我和他一起坐月子。

这时候我们心里也没有想到什么把送给别人啊，那一点心思也没有，就是给别人养个一年两年。等儿子生下来了，然后再把她抱回家。

说实在话也舍不得送给别人。

M: I didn’t dare to ‘sit the month’ at my own home. I did it at a friend’s place. She gave birth to a boy during the same time.

At this time, we never thought of giving the girl to others. We didn’t have such thoughts at all. We just need a year or two. After the son is born, we would take her home again.

To be honest, I would not give it to others.

S：大姨是怎么找到把我寄养的这户人家，他们是怎么知道这户人家会帮别人带小孩的？

S: How did the auntie find the family who fostered me? How did they know that this family would help others with their children?

M：他们是在教堂里认识的。那户人家本来就有帮很多人代养孩子，他们的生活比较贫困，所以要靠帮别人代养孩子来赚额外的钱。

M: They met in the church. That family had already helped many people to raise children on their behalf. Their lives were relatively poor, so they had to make extra money by helping others raise children on their behalf.

S：那你一个月给他们多少钱？

S: How much did you pay them each month?

M：这都是有市场价格。别人给多少，我们也给多少。平时去那里看看，买点东西啊怎么样。他们对你好不好，这个我们真的是看不到。我现在过去他们也没有在打你，不给东西吃。但是我们走了我们就不知道了，你小孩又不知道，你也不会说话，只会哭。

这是一种社会现象，我们也没有办法。

M: All these have market prices. We pay as much as others pay. We would go there time to time and buy something. We really wouldn’t know if they treat you well. When we were there, they didn’t beat you and didn’t give food. But we don’t know what happens when we left. Of course you can’t speak, you would only cry.

This is a social phenomenon, and we had no choice.

M：后来我终于又怀了一个。去检查，查起来是个女儿，其实我也想把她生下来，8个半月了。

我记得很清楚的，真的，我现在睡觉经常会想起来。很后悔。那个时候是这样的，很严格的。

等于是他们镇政府的人都有任务的，你必须要抓几个。抓不到你这个职务也没有了，他是这样压下来。

有个副部长跟你爸关系很好的，对我们还算好的，就让我去打掉，说起来在这个我现在在心里也很难受的。两个女儿都这么聪明，生下来不是更好。我现在都这样子想。

那个检察长把我抓过去，打掉了，一根那么长的针扎到肚子上。

那个时候打掉都是免费的，还有东西送过来给我们动员。以前都是这样的，没办法的。就是没办法了，这个是政府压下来的，你不打掉，你要做去坐牢，不可能给你生下来的。

要么就是罚款，罚个10万20万就生意不让你做。

有个人能够一直升职，就是因为计划生育抓得很严。

M: Then I finally was pregnant again. I went to check and found out that she was a girl. In fact, I also wanted to give birth to her.She was eight and a half months in the belly.

I remember very clearly, really, I often think of it when I sleep now. I am still regretful.

At that time, it was so strict. People in the town government had quotas, and you had to claim certain number of abortions. If they can’t catch enough, they’ll lose their positions.

There is a government official who has a very good relationship with your dad. He had treated us well. He asked us to do an abortion. It still feels very hard for me to say that now.

My both daughters are so smart, it would be better to have the third one also be born. I still think so now.

They forced an abortion on me. They stuck a needle that long into my stomach.

At that time, it was free to get an abortion, and there were even things sent to us to motivate more people to get abortions. There’s just no way to escape this. This was suppressed by the government. If you don’t get an abortion, you have to go to jail. It is impossible to give birth out of policy.

Either it is a fine, a fine of 100,000 and 200,000 or they will not let you do business.

There’s a person who got promoted all the time because he was very strict with family planning.

S：他们肯定可以睁一只眼闭一只眼，但是他选择了要这样子。

S: They could certainly turn a blind eye, but he chose this way.

M：那也不是的，这个人家会顶起来的。你家里明明已经有两个小孩又生一个，他们家里怎么能不能这样子，这个肯定是不可能的。我们自己村里的人也会去举报，都是一样的。

M: That’s not true. Other people would complain.How come you obviously already had two children and have more. How can they be like this in their family? People in our own village will also report.

S：那样了以后，然后你们就决定再生一次。

S: After that (abortion), you decided to have another one?

M：决定不生了。虽然是生了两个孩子，其实费用也很大的，你在别人家里面寄养，每个月也都要钱。我已经决定不生了，看你们奶奶来跟我说再生一个吧，钱再多，别人也看不见啊，你要是没有儿子，别人会骂你的，你生吧生吧，我会去照顾你坐月子的之类之类的。

你弟弟在肚子里有5个多月了，我们也没有去打B超照性别。一直到5个多月才有朋友的朋友带我们去医院里面做了B超。以前跟你爸关系还可以，我们都已经商量好了。如果是个儿子的话，那以后衣服晚全部都由他来洗。如果是女儿的话，那就没办法，只好我自己洗了。

M: I decided not. I already had two children, the cost was actually very high. I had to pay for the family who was fostering you. I had already decided not to have a baby. Then your grandma came and persuaded me to have another one. She said that no matter how much money you have, others will not see. If you don’t have a son, others will scold you. I will take care of you during the ‘sit in month’ and things like that.

Your brother has been in my belly for more than 5 months, and we haven’t taken an ultrasound. It took more than 5 months for a friend of a friend to take us to the hospital for an ultrasound. My relationship with your dad used to be okay, we had already jokingly discussed it. If it is a son, he will wash all the clothes later. If it is a daughter, thenI have to wash it myself.

S: 生完之后大家都开心吗？

S: Was everyone happy after he was born?

M：我生了儿子，大家当然开心啦。生了之后就让他奶奶来带小孩。

M: I gave birth to a son, of course everyone was happy. After giving birth, his grandmother took care of the baby.

S：那你都舍得的吗？

S: Were you willing to let her?

M：奶奶来养他有什么好不舍得的，我那时候有工资给他的呀，大概是2000元钱左右。他53天就断奶了，生下来53天以后就马上去结扎了。

M: What is so unwilling for grandma to raise him? I paid her about 2,000 yuan per month. He was weaned in 53 days. I went to get sterilized immediately after 53 days of birth.

S：你自愿的吗？还是别人让你这个。

S: Did you volunteer? Or someone else forced you to do this.

M：自愿也要去不自愿也要去，就像犯罪之后去投降了。然后那个把你叫过来，把你的户口上起来，把他的户口上。罚了15000，后来你爸爸找了人，罚了12000。

M: Go voluntarily and go involuntarily, just like surrendering after committing a crime. Then we registered you and your brother. The fine was 15,000. Later, your father found some connections and we paid 12,000.

S：关于生孩子有什么遗憾吗？

S: Any regrets about having children?

M：就是打掉了这一个。

M: Just the one that we didn’t get to keep.

S：等于说你等于帮那个人完成一个政绩，然后你也知道那个已经验过是女的了。

S: So you were basically helping that person complete a political achievement, and then you also had known that it would have been a girl.

M：那知道的。这个是一个人一个人的思路。每个家庭的负担也不同。反正一个人一个人思想不同，有些人小孩子想多，有些人不想生孩子。

像现在我们家三个小孩都很好，那不就会有点可惜，为什么不把那个生下来？

如果三个小孩都不听话的话，那可能就不会想这些了。

现在真的经常会想起来那个小孩。睡觉的时候都会想起来。

M: We knew. Of course, having kids is different for everyone. The burden of each family is also different. Everyone thinks differently. Some people want more children, and some people don’t want to have children.

Now that all three children in our family are fine, it would be a pity, why not give birth to that?

If the three children do not behave, then I might not think about it.

Now I really often think of that child. I think of it when I sleep.

[采访结束]
[end of the interview]

S：我们的采访内容暂时告一段落，说实话我并不完全赞同我妈妈的一些想法和做法，但这是她最真实的想法，是她的成长和生活环境在她身上留下的痕迹。

她的生育权并不完全掌握在他自己手里，是农村里传统的重男轻女思想和当时的计划生育政策，共同决定了她的生育和我们这家人的命运，包括我那被消失了的妹妹。

我在采访完我妈妈以后，也会经常想到那个没有机会长大的妹妹。如果她能够出生长大，她会有怎样的生活呢？

感谢收听噢！妈妈的第一期节目。这个节目目前还没有第二期，因为我暂时还没有找到愿意讨论这个话题的母亲们。

如果你或者你的母亲愿意谈论自己的生育历史，请通过邮箱联系我。如果你有任何的感想，欢迎给我发邮件或者在社交媒体上联络我。

如果你喜欢这期节目，请分享给你的朋友或者家人，希望我们会有下一期节目。

我们后会有期。

S: The content of our interview has come to an end. To be honest, I don’t fully agree with some of my mother’s ideas and practices, but these are her truest ideas and the traces of her growing up and living environment left on her.

Her reproductive rights are not entirely in his own hands. It is the traditional patriarchal thinking in the countryside and the family planning policy at that time, which together determine his reputation and the fate of our family, including my disappeared sister.

After interviewing my mother, I also often think of the sister who didn’t have a chance to grow up. If she was born and raised, what kind of life would she have?

Thanks for listening to the first episode of our Oh!Moma. There is no second episode of this program currently, because I haven’t found mothers who are willing to discuss this topic.

If you or your mother would like to talk about your reproductive history, please contact me via email. If you have any thoughts, please email me at ohmama.fm@gmail.com or contact me on social media.

If you like this episode, please share it with your friends or family, hope we will have the next episode.

Hope we can meet soon.

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我在”爱发电“上开了支持页面，欢迎大家给我打赏，支持我的播客。也欢迎大家购买咨询时间，和我探讨关于播客，工作，采访等等任何你想要讨论的话题。
爱发电页面：http://afdian.net/@ohmama

也可以通过页面左下角的“Support Me”在Kofi上请我喝杯咖啡。

你的支持会让我更有信心和能量把这个节目做得更长久，更高质量。